Is US Ready for EV's ?


Jim Duncan
 

With exception of the gasoline shortage price gouging in the UK, average gas cost is $1.24-US per liter. That's over $5.40-US per gallon.

Jim Duncan
Solar Acres Farm
817.917.0527
solarguy2004@...
On 10/12/2021 11:25 AM, Kevin wrote:

$10/gallon would be helpful, but I think unnecessary given how much better EVs already are.  As long we keep on installing renewable energy and batteries come down in price, we don't need gas to be that expensive.  It may well become that expensive if they stop pumping it due to reduced demand, though.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:24 AM Eric Johnson <vaxaugustifolium@...> wrote:
It will be difficult to promote electric cars and light trucks with gasoline prices below ten dollars a gallon, in my opinion.  When aviation fuel becomes more expensive, as well, people may decide to take the train. The economy could function well with short range EV's and long range train transportation.  That's how it worked in 1935.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM richjern via groups.io <richjern=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If he can get people to buy EVs who wouldn’t have otherwise that I can go with this conflict of interest. 


Jim Duncan
 

A Lithium-Ion Battery Management System manages the real-time control of each battery cell, communicates with external devices, manages SOC calculation, measures temperature and voltage, etc. This makes it very unlikely that an individual cell will become overcharged unless the BMS itself fails.

Jim Duncan
Solar Acres Farm
817.917.0527
solarguy2004@...
On 10/13/2021 9:27 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:

While it is true that EV batteries can overheat and catch fire, the bigger problem is damage to the main battery pack caused by individual cells that are not well matched with other cells in the pack.  Individual cells have to be connected in series to achieve the voltage required to operate the EV power supply to the drive motor.  If an individual cell does not hold enough charge to match up with the other cells, it will become depleted before the others, and at that point, it will be subjected to reverse polarity during the discharge cycle.  When the battery pack is set up to be recharged, this individual cell will overheat, and that can lead to a fire.  If the temperature sensor system is working, the charge cycle will automatically shut down.  But now the owner is left with a main battery that is 98% OK, and 2% defective.  Time for a new battery. To avoid this scenario,  some EV owners are being asked to never discharge below 30% of capacity, and to never charge above 85% of maximum capacity. 


Eric Johnson
 

While it is true that EV batteries can overheat and catch fire, the bigger problem is damage to the main battery pack caused by individual cells that are not well matched with other cells in the pack.  Individual cells have to be connected in series to achieve the voltage required to operate the EV power supply to the drive motor.  If an individual cell does not hold enough charge to match up with the other cells, it will become depleted before the others, and at that point, it will be subjected to reverse polarity during the discharge cycle.  When the battery pack is set up to be recharged, this individual cell will overheat, and that can lead to a fire.  If the temperature sensor system is working, the charge cycle will automatically shut down.  But now the owner is left with a main battery that is 98% OK, and 2% defective.  Time for a new battery. To avoid this scenario,  some EV owners are being asked to never discharge below 30% of capacity, and to never charge above 85% of maximum capacity. 


Roger
 

Paul, thanks very much for the link to the data. This is very useful in our work at Climate Reality.

Roger Knudson, Ph. D.
Professor Emeritus, Department of Psychology, Miami University
(859)866-3962
Chapter Chair, Climate Reality Project Dallas Fort Worth Chapter
Pronouns: He/Him/His


On Wed, Oct 13, 2021 at 6:40 AM Paul Westbrook <pwestbrook@...> wrote:
That gasoline stuff certainly is a fire danger. Sorry, couldn't resist. This is the classic case of something new getting disproportionate negative news coverage. We've had decades to become accustomed to gasoline vehicle fires. Gas vehicle fires are still far more likely than EV fires (per 100K of sales). Some of the best recent data I've seen is here: https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/

Paul

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 06:19 PM, Robert Virkus wrote:
there is no danger of fire


Paul Westbrook
 

That gasoline stuff certainly is a fire danger. Sorry, couldn't resist. This is the classic case of something new getting disproportionate negative news coverage. We've had decades to become accustomed to gasoline vehicle fires. Gas vehicle fires are still far more likely than EV fires (per 100K of sales). Some of the best recent data I've seen is here: https://www.autoinsuranceez.com/gas-vs-electric-car-fires/

Paul


On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 06:19 PM, Robert Virkus wrote:
there is no danger of fire


Robert Virkus
 

It has to be possible to charge one in 10 minutes and there is no danger of fire and it has to be possible to carry a portable device to charge one that stalls away from a charging station to be equivalent to the convenience of gas powered cars.


On Tuesday, October 12, 2021, Kevin <leftyobviousboy@...> wrote:
$10/gallon would be helpful, but I think unnecessary given how much better EVs already are.  As long we keep on installing renewable energy and batteries come down in price, we don't need gas to be that expensive.  It may well become that expensive if they stop pumping it due to reduced demand, though.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:24 AM Eric Johnson <vaxaugustifolium@...> wrote:
It will be difficult to promote electric cars and light trucks with gasoline prices below ten dollars a gallon, in my opinion.  When aviation fuel becomes more expensive, as well, people may decide to take the train. The economy could function well with short range EV's and long range train transportation.  That's how it worked in 1935.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM richjern via groups.io <richjern=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If he can get people to buy EVs who wouldn’t have otherwise that I can go with this conflict of interest. 


Jack Smith
 

When I read the op ed I noticed he missed the significance of what V2G and virtualized distributed micro-grids will do to the car purchase decision. I think Tesla has already proposed something like this with their power walls but there are roomers the most of the software is already installed in their cars since 2019.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/austin-housing-project-offers-tesla-large-scale-test-bed-to-address-challen/603670/


Eric Johnson
 

Kevin, I think you are preaching to the choir.  A used car can be bought for 3 to 5 thousand dollars, and driven 5000 miles a year.  At 20 miles a gallon, that's 250 gallons of fuel.  At 3 dollars a gallon for gasoline, that comes out to 750 dollars in fuel cost.  That is current economic reality.  It factors into where people live, where they shop for groceries, where they work, where they go for recreation, and where they go to school.  At one time, the USA had an extensive bus transportation system, we had interurban trains, and we had local trolleys.  We went to the train station and bought a ticket when we had to travel longer distances.  By 1960, much of this was gone, replaced by the interstate highway system, and the airlines.  I remember being a kid in 1960, and thinking all of this was progress!

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 11:25 AM Kevin <leftyobviousboy@...> wrote:
$10/gallon would be helpful, but I think unnecessary given how much better EVs already are.  As long we keep on installing renewable energy and batteries come down in price, we don't need gas to be that expensive.  It may well become that expensive if they stop pumping it due to reduced demand, though.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:24 AM Eric Johnson <vaxaugustifolium@...> wrote:
It will be difficult to promote electric cars and light trucks with gasoline prices below ten dollars a gallon, in my opinion.  When aviation fuel becomes more expensive, as well, people may decide to take the train. The economy could function well with short range EV's and long range train transportation.  That's how it worked in 1935.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM richjern via groups.io <richjern=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If he can get people to buy EVs who wouldn’t have otherwise that I can go with this conflict of interest. 


Kevin
 

$10/gallon would be helpful, but I think unnecessary given how much better EVs already are.  As long we keep on installing renewable energy and batteries come down in price, we don't need gas to be that expensive.  It may well become that expensive if they stop pumping it due to reduced demand, though.


On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 10:24 AM Eric Johnson <vaxaugustifolium@...> wrote:
It will be difficult to promote electric cars and light trucks with gasoline prices below ten dollars a gallon, in my opinion.  When aviation fuel becomes more expensive, as well, people may decide to take the train. The economy could function well with short range EV's and long range train transportation.  That's how it worked in 1935.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM richjern via groups.io <richjern=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If he can get people to buy EVs who wouldn’t have otherwise that I can go with this conflict of interest. 


Eric Johnson
 

It will be difficult to promote electric cars and light trucks with gasoline prices below ten dollars a gallon, in my opinion.  When aviation fuel becomes more expensive, as well, people may decide to take the train. The economy could function well with short range EV's and long range train transportation.  That's how it worked in 1935.

On Tue, Oct 12, 2021 at 9:23 AM richjern via groups.io <richjern=aol.com@groups.io> wrote:
If he can get people to buy EVs who wouldn’t have otherwise that I can go with this conflict of interest. 


richjern@...
 

If he can get people to buy EVs who wouldn’t have otherwise that I can go with this conflict of interest. 


Mellen West