Re: Biden = Trump Anti Solar PV Punitive Tariffs to continue.

Philip Timmons

 A+   The cardboard between the panels cost more.

So . . .  we know it is:  NOT  "Slave Labor" v. US based robotics cost.

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 12:49:23 PM CST, Joachim Saupe via <jsaupe@...> wrote:

OMG, that would have added Euro 12.00  to my 11kW system  ~ $ 15.00

"The most difficult thing is the decision to act; the rest is merely tenacity"
Amelia Earhart, aviation pioneer, writer, first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 11:25:29 AM CST, Philip Timmons via <philiptimmons@...> wrote:

Sort of funny -- someone that exact math here >>>

Copied in full here >>>

Bottom Line here >>>

5 CONCLUSIONS  In this work, the analysis of the several waste lines in the solar cells manufacturing processes has been performed. Also the implementation of the different lines to perform the waste treatment, prices and resulting products have been analysed. Despite the NOx gas line, the use of two liquid waste treatment streams for HF, H2SiF6, HNO3 and NH3 and a gas waste stream containing NH3 and SiH4 is cost effective when the subproducts resulting from the treatments are sold in the industry.   

If a 5 years amortization of the waste treatment equipment is considered, an increment of the solar cell price of 0.0011 €/watt is obtained.

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 11:02:10 AM CST, Eric Johnson <vaxaugustifolium@...> wrote:

Manufacturing pure silicon, to be used in making photovoltaic cells, involves generating hazardous waste, which is regulated by the EPA and also by state and local laws, here in the USA.  The waste stream has to be controlled, and the most hazardous materials are captured, concentrated, and stored in a licensed landfill, unless they can be somehow recycled and re-used.  All of this adds expense to the manufacturing process.  To my knowledge, these measures are not required or enforced in China, so they have a competitive edge in the world market.

On Tue, Feb 8, 2022 at 10:55 AM Philip Timmons via <> wrote:
Yep.  And Texas has "FREE" overnight Electricity.   Every night.  And whole weekends.  

Even gets Negative Value at times.  

So we know the Cost of Electrical Energy to do this is not the issue. 

And the more Silicon Solar PV this would build out -- the Cheaper the Daytime would get as well.  

So.   Big Demand.  Local Production and US Sales.  Low Input Energy Costs.

Who would not want US to do this, and why?  


On Tuesday, February 8, 2022, 10:37:01 AM CST, Jim Duncan <solarguy2004@...> wrote:

So once you have the purified raw silicon from the CVD process it's crushed into meltable chunks and sent to the ingot growing dept where they are melted again and turned into finished ingots 4-5meters long and to the finish diameter about 150mm ready to be sawed into individual cells.

Jim Duncan
Solar Acres Farm
On 2/8/2022 9:57 AM, Jim Duncan via wrote:

The manufacturing of PV grade silicon [99.9999%] from raw materials is just one of the most costly part of the entire manufacturing process. The attached picture of a [chemical vapor deposition ] CVD reactor is one common method of purifying the Si though only the first step in the cell making process and very energy intensive.

Jim Duncan
Solar Acres Farm
On 2/6/2022 12:02 AM, Philip Timmons via wrote:
. . . .  and even IF you were doing Full Fabrication in the US -- the labor component would a VERY minor cost.  Silicon Solar PV is among the easiest of process manufacturing, and comparing the Cost of Robotics based in the US is cheaper than even Slave Labor in China once you take out the transport costs.  

On Saturday, February 5, 2022, 11:43:25 PM CST, Joachim Saupe via <jsaupe@...> wrote:

Not necessarily. Here in the USA a lot of times the price is being determined by what the market will bear. I call that "Vulture Capitalism"!.

I also take issue with the statement that US labor cost is not being competitive.

Take for instance labor in Germany:
German goods are in demand. Steel products being just one example. The USA imports a lot of steel from Germany.
With Steel workers making at least as good (if not better) wages than here in the USA. On top of the wages, the workers have as a start 4 weeks of
paid vacation. That vacation time increases by age to over 6 weeks per year, There is no max sick leave time. If a worker is sick, He gets paid
by the company. When a certain threshold is exceeded (I think 4 weeks at a stretch), the health insurance (that every worker has no matter where he works)
kicks in. There are also many other paid leave programs. One example is the parental leave that can be split between the mother and father of a newborn,
covering several months for each parent.
All of this makes labor very costly in Germany compared to the USA so cost of labor here in the USA  cannot be the issue.


"The most difficult thing is the decision to act; the rest is merely tenacity"
Amelia Earhart, aviation pioneer, writer, first woman to fly solo across the Atlantic Ocean

On Saturday, February 5, 2022, 07:38:17 PM CST, Mellen West <mellenmail@...> wrote:

The price of anything is related to the cost of labor to make it. USA labor is not cometetive on the global market.  That’s why your shoes are not made in New England and car parts are made in Mexico.  Look at the Fast,, Good, Cheap matrix.



From: <> On Behalf Of Robert Virkus
Sent: Saturday, February 5, 2022 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [NTREG] Biden = Trump Anti Solar PV Punitive Tariffs to continue.


I thought this was intended to encourage domestic manufacturing so China does not control the whole market. 

On Saturday, February 5, 2022, Philip Timmons via <> wrote:

Well, we have the answer in.


No need to wait until the 22 Feb 2022 expiration of the Trump Anti-Solar PV Punitive Tariffs.


(which could have been canceled ANY time for the Entire Last Year.  


Biden renewed the Anti-Solar PV Punitive Tariffs for another 4 YEARS(!) -- while leaving the UTILITY Scale Bi-Facial exempt.  


So "little people" Arrays COST MORE, Utility Cost Less. 


Total disgusting corporate sell-outs.  




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