Re: Alternative mode of transportation


Joachim Saupe
 

Philip, you are right!

Thanks

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little”
Franklin D. Roosevelt



On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 07:01:05 PM CDT, Philip Timmons via groups.io <philiptimmons@...> wrote:


Joachim -- this is not my monkey nor my circus . . . but if you keep feeding this, you are just going to get more of this. 

Enjoy.  



On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 06:28:01 PM CDT, Joachim Saupe via groups.io <jsaupe@...> wrote:


Mellen,

Bikes and E-bikes SHOULD NOT pay a road use tax!
We all pay taxes. Infrastructure is paid for by taxes.
To charge a user fee to use that infrastructure is Mafia method.
If you want to transition away from taxes to user fees, you will need a bean counter on every corner.

The (here in the USA) minimal gasoline tax should be used to repair roads that are torn up. 
The heavier the vehicle, the more fuel it uses, the more gasoline tax it pays.
 
A bicycle or e-bike with it's relative low weight and speed will not cause ANY road damage, not even if
you run a million bikes over a well constructed road.

As far as license plates on bikes, my car was hit by another about 6 years ago. When I got out of my vehicle, the other
driver had high tailed it out, nowhere to be found. So your argument is not valid.

Joachim






“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little”
Franklin D. Roosevelt



On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 01:11:30 PM CDT, Mellen West <mellenmail@...> wrote:


Mark (and others),

 

Bicycles and e-bikes SHOULD pay road use tax . Just because they cause less wear and tear on road surfaces does not mean they are not consuming the public right of way. If they want to enjoy amenities like dedicated bike lanes they need to demonstrate that they are paying their fair share. License plates and inspection tags are one way to achieve this that everyone understands.  Fuel fees are not generating sufficient funds for roads and raising fuel taxes is not an equitable solution given the trajectory of electric vehicles in the marketplace.  Mileage based road use fees

 

Proof of insurance should be required as it is with cars and trucks. Health insurance in particular. It is obvious that a bike and rider will cause less property damage than a car if they strike something but they are much more likely to receive physical injury that is much more expensive to repair than a bent fender. Example: A friend was walking down the Santa Fe Trail ( a dedicated pedestrian/bike path) in Dallas with his wife and struck from behind by a cyclist who was texting on his phone rather than watching where he was going.  Result: Tres had a broken collar bone and had his arm in a sling for 6 weeks.  Cyclist was uninsured but fortunately Tres had medical insurance.  What’s wrong with that picture?

 

Air Pollution and related public health issues:  Internal combustion engines are huge contributors but more bikes are not likely to play much of a role to clean up the air. (citation needed).  EVs and emission control regulations are more effective.

 

This is for another conversation but one of the big gorillas in the air pollution room is the 2-cycle gasoline motor that powers most yard maintenance equipment. Operating a 2-cycle gas powered leaf blower produces same emission as a Ford F150 truck driven 3800 miles.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-03/the-case-against-leaf-blowers   The City of Dallas proposed a moratorium on leaf blowers in 2019 that went nowhere.  I still bug my city officials about it and passed out flyers at Earth Day TX 2019.

 

Bikes make transportation sense in small, flat, temperate countries like Holland but Texas is not any of these.  In addition, bikes are only useful for able-bodied people and not an aging population.

 

My opinion. 

 

Mellen

 

PS.  Don’t confuse me with a Libertarian. 

 

 

 

 

From: main@NTREG.groups.io <main@NTREG.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mark Witte
Sent: Sunday, 6 June, 2021 8:50 AM
To: main@NTREG.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NTREG] Alternative mode of transportation

 

Sorry I dropped out of the discussion yesterday; it was due to involvement in politics, not from a lack of interest in the subject.

 

Bicycles and e-bicycles should not have to pay road use taxes, because, as someone correctly implied previously, 250 pound bicycles + riders cause MUCH less wear and tear (and maintenance) on roads than 2,500 pound cars.

 

Similarly, insurance rates should go down. A 250 bicycle + rider accidentally hitting a stationary (or slower moving) object will cause MUCH less damage to said stationary object than a 2,500 pound car. Also, health insurance rates should go down because of people using muscle power and actually getting exercise while moving from point A to point B - and I won't even mention the health problems, skyrocketing insurance rates, hospitalizations and prescription drug overuse caused by the out of control obesity epidemic in the U.S. 

 

Air pollution and resultant breathing problems would also go down. Car engines are most polluting when they first start. I've never understood the efficiency of a 180 pound person driving a 2,500 pound pile of steel, plastic and rubber a half a mile to pick up a 1 pound loaf of bread. Perhaps one of the engineers can explain it to me. 

 

With all that being said, I completely concur with bike riders staying off busy streets. I understand it is their legal rights to use streets, but legality does not infer common sense. 

 

I really like the idea of using bike lights at all times. Studies of repeatedly shown that cars are much more visible with their lights on - even in full sunlight. Bicyclists have even more reasons to want to be as visible as possible. 

 

Mark     

 

On Sunday, June 6, 2021, 12:20:39 AM CDT, Joachim Saupe via groups.io <jsaupe@...> wrote:

 

 

Mellen,

 

Why?

You have expressed your position on this subject numerous times here on this forum.

This time there is pushback and you want to take it elsewhere.

I feel that is disingenuous.

 

Joachim

 

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little”

Franklin D. Roosevelt

 

 

 

On Saturday, June 5, 2021, 05:21:01 PM CDT, Mellen West <mellenmail@...> wrote:

 

 

Joachim,  Let’s take this conversation elsewhere.

Mellen

 

From: main@NTREG.groups.io <main@NTREG.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joachim Saupe via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 5 June, 2021 1:18 PM
To: main@NTREG.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NTREG] Alternative mode of transportation

 

The infrastructure is paid by all kinds of taxes, fuel tax is just a small part of it.

So everyone is already paying for most of it.

When you buy a bike, you pay sales tax... There goes your argument re. shoe leather.

 

My daughter lives in a rural area, Most of the roads are gravel and dirt. Why should she pay the same as me, living in the metroplex driving on paved roads everywhere I go?

Maybe a tax collector on everyone's passenger seat could assess the quality and distance of every road one travels. 

Or hey, maybe we could do that electronically.... A record where every driver is at any given time... How quaint.

 

You are tilting at windmills, Mellen.

 

Joachim

 

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little”

Franklin D. Roosevelt

 

 

 

On Saturday, June 5, 2021, 12:56:02 PM CDT, Mellen West <mellenmail@...> wrote:

 

 

Joachim,

Tax on shoe leather already exists in sales tax but you are missing my point. I still maintain that if bikes, EVs and any alternate fuel vehicle needs to help pay at least a token amount for infrastructure they enjoy. Fuel taxes at the pump are fiscal dinosaurs.

 

Mellen

 

PS. Full medical coverage for all (AKA National Health) works well for most successful modern countries. USA profit oriented care is short sighted in my view.  Healthcare is another conversation but still an equity issue.

 

From: main@NTREG.groups.io <main@NTREG.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joachim Saupe via groups.io
Sent: Saturday, 5 June, 2021 12:40 PM
To: main@NTREG.groups.io
Subject: Re: [NTREG] Alternative mode of transportation

 

How about a tax on shoe leather for when you walk on public pavements!

 

And a requirement for anybody to have full medical coverage so your healthcare is not substituted by those who have insurance!

 

 

Joachim

 

 

“The test of our progress is not whether we add more to the abundance of those who have much; it is whether we provide enough for those who have too little”

Franklin D. Roosevelt

 

 

 

On Saturday, June 5, 2021, 09:43:05 AM CDT, Mellen West <mellenmail@...> wrote:

 

 

In my view you are using publicly funded roads and not paying your fair share. In addition, you are evading insurance requirements to operate a vehicle on public roads.
Mellen

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